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<title><![CDATA[Comments for entry "Car Buying" at Dilbert.com Blog]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/822]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Regular thoughts and updates from Dilbert.com]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from brsavage]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1898952]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[
 First let me state I love Dilbert. Second let me state I'm the General Manager of a large Ford dealership....

It's terribly easy to generalize regarding the automobile sales business - and you certainly did. This isn't 1980 and while I don't doubt your experience as you depicted it - you simply had the wrong dealer. Up until the early 80's it was the wild wild west for decades - dealers took advantage of customers by having an unfair advantage - we controlled all of the information. Then as the transition into the information age and the internet boom a funny thing happened, and that is that all of the power was now vested in the customer - and you exacted your retribution by going to half a dozen dealers and attempting to cut the throat of every previous dealer, even to the point of going past parallel and driving for hours spending more on gas and time wasted just to save $50.00 - but understood - there was no loyalty seeped into your existance from having ever developed a relationship with a dealer who treated you correctly. 

Flash forward to the current climate. Attrition has eliminated many of the pinky ring wearing dealers, and there are infinitely more dealers available who genuinely are willing to not only be fair with the customer in determining a transaction price, but also to be committed to giving them excellent service after the sale. In my opinion, the new and most valuable commodity for most customers is their time - we understand that by proxy a customer who recognizes we are &quot;different&quot; will a large majority of the time decide to do business with us as they actively want and seek out someone who &quot;gets it&quot;. 

The reality is that negotiating on anything is not an every day occurrence for 99% of Americans, so it makes them uncomfortable - and from there the elephant in the room is the pure subjectiveness of what is believed to be a &quot;fair deal&quot;.  A dealer can't sell a vehicle while not making any money and then give you the best service after the sale that knocks your socks off - it's a recipe for overpromising and under delivering. 

A wise person somewhere once said that people will believe just about anything - and I have seen some doozies in these replies... my favorite is the one where the responsder states that every dealer is on a network and we share with each other what price you were quoted so that you can't get an offer anywhere else for less - exactly wrong! Dealers are in competition with one another and we hate to lose market share to another dealer - in any business platform when there is competition it is good for the customer. As a matter of record all dealers pay the exact same price for their vehicles - small dealers, large dealers, etc - we all pay the same thing. The difference is some dealers place a different value or priority on creating a customer. 

Our dealership is a large one - we prioritize adding to our customer base and view each sale as a life expectancy that includes part sales and service work - so we don't make the transaction price as big of an issue as many - we don't need to because our fixed operations (parts and service) covers a much bigger percent of our overhead costs than at most other dealers. 

In closing, there are dealers out there who aren't the trolls under the bridge. With the access available online of detailed information including invoice pricing and dealer incentives it is infinitely easy to have the majority of the information you need to make an informed and fair decision long before you ever leave your home. Shop - find the professional dealer - you will be able to tell almost instantly if they are decent and well trained or a waste of your time. Reward the dealer that doesn't waste your time with nonsense, and conversely don't support the dealer that does - otherwise you perpetuate that type of sales process by supporting it - help the attrition process by giving your money to people who understand how you want to be handled!!

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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from Cheafaexudu]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1790002]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Nyf mecohyjeleat cechefozucok jifrehae hyth pimath teadic jae foope qaeth mesofeafoo car cigy hyc goutyth bea kyrechypipa shushafythy [URL=&quot;http://googl.com&quot;]good[/URL] url thoohaxunan bimeboojoo haeroj.]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[TueAMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from minotauraus]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1782250]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[An awesome thing an awesome man said to a salesperson - &quot;I've heard the sales people at this dealership are amazing at what they do. I'd like to see you sell this price to your manager.&quot; 

I swear the guy was blank for a couple of seconds then said &quot;He'll laugh at my face.&quot; 

&quot;I see, so I was right. I'll try another dealership.&quot; 

&quot;Hang on, let me see what I can do.&quot;

Be firm, but polite. Remember YOU have something THEY want - money. Don't ever forget that when buying a car.
Also, salespeople are very cunning, they can estimate how much you make based on your clothes, shoes, watches, sunglasses etc...]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[FriAMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from alandjackson]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1781698]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Is it possible that the government can break the economy but not fix it?  Just an idea that maybe in the historical examples you should be looking for what causes the least damage and lets the economy get better on it's own.]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[ThuPMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from pyite]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1779730]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[One more thing to remember: buying a new car should be a completely different process from buying a used car.

A friend of mine who worked at a dealership explained that the dealers barely break even on new cars since the prices are so well published.  Used car trade-ins are where the money is.  It isn't quite as easy to find the current auction value of a used car, but this is the most valuable piece of information you can have when starting the negotation process - dealers never have more than this amount in a used car.

I have always used the edmunds.com &quot;private party&quot; price as about what I expect to pay.  They also list their estimate of both the auction and &quot;dealer retail&quot; prices.

Once that is done, though, you could write a whole series of articles on the dealership financing tactics, which are equally impressive.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from barsoom]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1776310]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[This was a brilliant and hilarious summary.  I LOATHE the car buying experience, and you are absolutely right - it's all about you being the amateur an them being the professional.  Think about any boiler room full of sales people being trained to sell you something over the phone, and notch that up 1000% and you've got the car salesman.  They know every angle, ever story, every possible &quot;trick&quot; you might play, and they completely hate it when you walk in more informed than they may be.  I used to use the Edmunds website to figure out my next car purchase, but then I saw those ads on TV for truecar.com and discovered that not only were they showing what the invoice price was, they also showed what the ACTUAL dealer's cost is on top of the so called &quot;factory invoice&quot;.  Now, I don't know what the truecar angle is; they seem to have dealers that sell cars with a price guarantee before you even go to the dealership, but I'm just interested in the data they show about what people are paying.  That said, I've not purchased a car from one of their dealers, but for my next car I'm absolutely going to give it a try (nothing to lose as it seems to be free and I'll have a printout of the invoice and cost numbers with me).  The bottom line is I don't want to get pushed around, and getting to the lowest price so that I don't feel like somebody else paid less than me is all that I care about.  Finance guy - screw you.  No, no, no.  I want nothing.  Get me in and out as quickly as possible.  Same day?  I think it's fine if you know the pricing.  Bottom line is: DO YOUR RESEARCH and be prepared; reveal nothing until you have a price that you know is a good deal.]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[ThuAMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from nvarsj]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1776105]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[There are few things as visceral as the remorse of buying a new car after a lengthy negotiation with a car salesman. You're totally right - they are the professionals and we are the amateurs. I don't get how this industry still survives. It's ripe for some disruption (if we can get around the ridiculous laws that protect dealers).


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<pubDate><![CDATA[WedPMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from dealerhater]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1776096]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[You described my jeep purchase experience exactly - contract &quot;mistakes&quot;, hidden fees after price finalized, bs add-ons.  Except they eventually made a mistake in my favor after the 5th contract &quot;correction&quot; and by that time the jeep was in my driveway and I had a signed contract.

So I get a call from their HEAD finance guy - i think they called him DICK.  He said there was an error and wanted to know if we should do another contract OR would I just pay 500 out of pocket.  I told him I have the vehicle, contract and by this time a car payment and that I would talk to my &quot;attorney.&quot;  This is when he thought yelling at me would help his cause.  I told him their lack of business controls around contracts are missing and they should fire the person responsible and then i then bid fair well.

So as my temp tag approaches expiration i start to worry a little that I have not received my registration.  I start to dig into what to do(free time during unemployment).  Come to find out there was a state dept that handles dealer complaints.  I went in and fill out their paperwork, provided a copy of my contract and car payment.  A few days later the state inspector called and I explained my details and he said he would call if he had anymore questions.  Oh and I had to pay 7 dollars more for a new temp tag.

SO a few weeks later I receive my registration - no questions asked. 

DMV POS is another story all together but I have a new jeep and the dealer got 500 less than they hoped.  BTW the 500 was for them to ship from another dealer so was a true cost :)

There is a reason all dealer owners are multi-millionaires and it is not because they are nice guys.

F all dealers]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from fghdff]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1773569]]></link>
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]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[SatPMCDTE_Rstst]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from BobNL]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1770090]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[I love it, I love it, I love it.

&quot;The reality is that we are amateurs and we were dealing with professionals&quot;

So true. That is the reason why I bought my last two used cars from amateurs (directly from the owner). Sure, there is no warranty, but have you have ever tried to cash in on the warranty of a used car at the dealer?]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from arunka007]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1767566]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Is there a guy everyone hates more than the used car sales guy? Do you think the used car sales guy know this?]]></description>
<pubDate><![CDATA[FriAMCDTE_Rthth]]></pubDate>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from Elric1v]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766718]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Scott, you said that all of the dealers are networked now and won't bid against each other.  If you can prove that, it smells like price fixing!  But that doesn't make sense to me since the dealers are independently owned.  

It wasn't the case five years ago -- I called 15 dealers and asked what the bottom, all included price on the exact model I wanted was, then chose the lowest and asked them to put it in writing.  Several of them wouldnt even give me a price, which is hilarious, so i hung up on them.  There was $4000 difference between highest and lowest.  I went and signed the papers and picked it up -- easiest car dealing experience I've ever had.

[Was the lowest price also coincidentally the first place you called that actually gave you a price? If it was, that's what price fixing looks like. Everyone after the first call gave you no price or an intentionally high one. I also assume that the lowest telephone price is always $1,000 higher than the lowest in-store price. -- Scott]]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from scottsunderwater]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766589]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Obviously they try and screw you on every phase- trade in, price, financing, etc.  One trick is to get that price down as low as possible and let them make it back on the financing.  They feel like they've made their money and think you just can't do the math.  Then the next day you pay the loan off in full with a much more sensible loan from your credit union (assuming you have arranged one in advance and there are no fees for early repayment).]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from hankfu]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766155]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Scott, that is exactly how my car experience goes and my wife and I learned a few important lessons:
1) Never accept the first offer or make a deal on the first day
2) Never trade in a car unless you are simply looking to get rid of it for free
3) Always explain to finance guy that the deal the manager/sales guy quoted is all you are going to pay, no more, no less (taxes and tags notwithstanding)
4) Always pack a food and drinks when going to negotiations, the longer the negotiations take, the better deal you will get.

If you had followed those rules, I bet you would have gotten the full $1000 off the price.  On a side note, I recently bought a VW Routan (fully loaded) and actually loved the experience (following the steps I outlined above) and the dealer was very eager to deal.  They offered $8000 off the top of the sticker price and we spent a couple days and shopped at Toyota and Honda dealers and found that this was indeed a big discount over a comparable minivan.  Next we haggled over my 12 year old, beat-up SUV and I was able to get $2500 for trade in.  I argued that since VW was the worst rated minivan on the market compared to Toyota and Honda, I would not expect to see any trade-in value so for the minivan so they needed to up the trade-in on my SUV.  They agreed.  We financed through VW at 4% but when we contacted our insurance guy he offered to take over the loan for under 3%.  All in all, we made out like bandits on the new VW minivan and love the vehicle.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from DizPareunia]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766085]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[As a person of modest means, I never buy a new car, seldom buy from a dealer, and always pay cash.
None of the problems you and your readers describe - and I always have money in my pocket.
With this strategy, though, you should figure in a few hundred bucks in various repairs/improvements.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from DizPareunia]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766066]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Undercoating: after having given notice at a dealership, I was assigned some cars to undercoat (a very nasty job), and instructed &quot;just hit the wheel-wells&quot;.
I did a proper job, much to their dismay (the material is expensive).
When asked why I told them that if anyone complained about a shoddy bit of work, they would tell them &quot;Yeah, we fired that !$%*!$%*!$%*!$ for that&quot;.
Moral: if you buy undercoating, get the car up on a hoist and inspect it.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from Crazycardfreak]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766046]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[It does seem like quite a deal of haggling. I went in to a dealership recently to see what my options were, mainly to show my Fiance' what I already believed my options were. They were as I expected, and as the sales guys upped the pressure and started offering deals I knew were just ploys to keep me from leaving, I left.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from kanopemainer]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1766011]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[Letters to the BBB (Better Business Bureau) are a way to go when complaining about a business in general, but when one thinks he/she has a legitimate gripe over bad business practices, send copies !! to the Attorney General of your State, the Owner of the busnesses home address, and !! the vehicle's manufacturer's Customer's service department.]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from Jibbley]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1765721]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[[So there is an acceptable price for magic coating? -- Scott] 

Not really, but you can get it applied later for half the price by somebody who's had a bit of practice applying it and knows how to do it. The dealership will most likely get their lowest level intern to do it as quickly as he possibly can.
]]></description>
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<title><![CDATA[Comment  from kibitzer]]></title>
<link><![CDATA[http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/1765307]]></link>
<description><![CDATA[A couple of comments have mentioned going to the BBB.  That's pointless.  The goal of the BBB is to justify the business' bad actions.  After all, it is an organization of the local businesses.  Who do you think it is going to side with?

The two ways that are much better for getting a problem with a business corrected are your local or state consumer protection agency, and the &quot;action line&quot; of a local newspaper or TV station.  They cannot always get the resolution that you want, but you have a much better chance with them than with the BBB.]]></description>
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