Is it ever okay for your leaders to lie to you if they genuinely believe it is in the best interest of the country?

Personally, I'm okay with that, even if it turns out to be a colossal mistake. All I ask is that smart people did their best to get it right. Hey, no one is perfect.

That's why I can't generate any genuine anger toward our current bumbling government despite the fact they killed hundreds of thousands of people, steered the economy into a ravine, and ruined two hundred years of International good will. I actually think they were trying to do the right thing as they saw it. And if they weren't smart enough, the voters have to be blamed for that. Our politicians didn't get any dumber after being elected. We knew what we were getting.

I don't think I'm alone in my opinion. Otherwise we'd be in the middle of the impeachment process.

(Sorry about the line spacing. The blog interface is random today.)

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Jun 12, 2008
I choose not to base my approval of the government by the actions or consequences, but rather the motivation behind the actions. Right now I approve of the motivation of the actions, although the consequences are not what anyone hoped for and very few expected. And the minority should shut up, what do they expect to accomplish by complaining anyway?
Jun 12, 2008
I actually agree with you, Scott. While I think the current president is a disaster, I just can't find it in me to hate him because I know he's doing what HE thinks is best. I still think that what he's doing is wrong, but I can't swear at him or call him "Hitler" like some other people because he honestly believes it's in the country's best interest. Anger does me no good. His presidency is almost up and all we can do is try to vote someone into office this time that both wants what's best for the country and actually improves the country at the same time. It's a tall order, but I think we can manage it.

Honestly, I'm more peeved at congress than Bush. They're supposed to keep him in line. That's their job. But they constantly give him permission to do this junk. When congress was taken over by the Democrats, how many acceptance speeches included the words, "It's time to change, Bush isn't going to get away with this"? But the moment they got into congress they decided that keeping their jobs was more important than helping the country. At least Bush is honest about what he wants to do. He has said time and time again that he believes that it's good to be in Iraq and what he is doing is good, and he's going to continue to do it. Congress, on the other hand, bashes Bush to no end, but in the end doesn't have the courage to stand up to him. THAT is what I hate. It really makes me angry. I would rather have a politician come out and say, "I'm going to do this because I believe it's right. You may not like it, but I'm going to do it anyway," than, "I promise to fix things, I hate this too" and then turn around and do absolutely nothing about it when we give his cushy lying ass a job in congress.

We wouldn't have the problems that we do not if the people in congress weren't a bunch of cheating scumbags. Sure, there's probably a few good ones, but not enough. When they finally stop lining their fat pockets and realize that it's their job to improve the country and keep the president in check, I'll die of shock. But that will be in a long time, because we all know how long it takes congress to do any damn thing.
0 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
George Bernard Shaw once said "Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve".

George W. Bush and his cronies stole the 2000 election, but they did not steal the 2004 election. In 2004, the American public endorsed everything that the Bush government had done to that point, and would do for the next four years.

Those who voted for Bush and those who abstained from voting have no right to complain. The minority rest do.
Jun 12, 2008
The "current occupant" is THE living example of the Dilbert Principle. He has a long standing track record of incompetence and has moved right up the food chain inspite of it. I do hope that the next occupant has an IQ that at least reaches triple digits. I find it easier to criticize smart people than complete idiots.
Jun 12, 2008
How very Plato's The Republic of you/
-3 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
The current US bumbling government didn't ruin your international good will. That's been in the toilet for almost 60 years.
Jun 12, 2008
Please look back into history. What you will find is the same (type) of people, employing the same techniques of control and manipulation. There is truly nothing new under the sun - I give you exhibit A:

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Goering
Jun 12, 2008
Of course it's OK, everything is OK, just keep your eyes on the swinging watch. Your eyelids are starting to get heavy, sure everything is fine, our leaders lie, the press lies, no one has ever read the constitution (the supreme law of the land) everything is going to be fine. It's just about the money, your eyelids are getting very heavy, you are floating in a warm ocean of happy thoughts. You get the leaders you deserve, it's actually your fault, they were just stupid (like underestimating the cost effectivity of using Haliburton as a no bid subcontractor) they didn't mean any harm by it, everything is fine, now sleep deep america, the dream is over.

+2 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
RLG, nice job avoiding the censors. I like the term "blowjoy." Go find a puppy and be happy.
-2 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
Hi Scott,

Are you lying about the blog interface being random and just being lazy?

If so, I think that is wrong, along with our government lying to us.

Jun 12, 2008
If politicians want to lie about getting a blowjoy in an oval office closet, that's ok by me.

But don't lie to me about anything that leads to parents burying their children. I think anyone who has family serving in the military deserve the truth up front. It's galling for politicians to lie about reasons for putting soldiers in harm's way - especially considering most of them don't have their children serving in the armed forces.

I think too many people drank the Fox News/Bush Support Our Troops kool-aid and then didn't want to own up to being duped. That's why we're not in the middle of an impeachment. That and it's too close to the next Presidential election.

Now I have to go find a puppy to pet or something because I let you get me all cranky right now. :P
Jun 12, 2008
I think it would be okay as long as the leader is operating in the same reality as the rest of us. Society would fall apart without all the white lies. We're just going to have to live with that (at least until the robots take over, for our own good). As for impeachment, some people have been trying. Dennis Kucinich has introduced articles of impeachment against both Bush and Cheney, and there's a town in Virginia (can't remember the name right now) that has passed a law saying that if Bush and Cheney aren't impeached, they will be arrested (well, if they ever visit the town, but its still a statement). The problem is that most of congress doesn't do their job, which is supposed to be whatever the people tell them to do.
Jun 12, 2008
I totally agree with you. I too believe that the current administration is doing what they truly think is best for the country. And as far as accountability goes, well we have a things in place for that; the main one being elections. If you dont agree with whats being done, sitting back and complaining or insulting the current administration is NOT an effective means of making change. You vote for a leader that will bring the changes you want. You contact your representative and let that person know your feelings. Make your voice heard.

Oh and stop whining about how things are broken when you dont have a CLUE what it takes to "fix" it, or even if it can be. Its truly absurd to demand something when you dont know anything about the cost or feasibility of doing it.
Jun 12, 2008
Your statement assumes that the "leaders," meaning the government, is intended to drive the economy or have anything to do with International good will, whatever that is. Anything the government does that is not protecting or defending the rights of the individuals in that country is failed by definition. And this intervention and exceeding of mandate is the bigger crime, the lying is just a symptom.

As far as killing hundreds of thousands of people, that on it's face isn't a black mark against the government. It depends who those people were and what the reason for killing them was. If you mean by not having a rational defense policy they are allowing even one American soldier to die because they are not allowed to defend themselves and are not properly attacking an identified enemy then it is a terrible crime. If you mean killing people who are intent upon our destruction to the point that they have initiated force, then, that is the proper and only function of our "leaders."
Jun 12, 2008
It is the height of arrogance to believe you are so right that you are justified in lying to others to get them to believe as you do.

So NO, it is NOT all right.
Jun 12, 2008
Well if they are smart enough to make a good decision then alright they can lie. But if we have a dumb president then I don't think so. And if we do have a dumb president it's not the voters' fault, we simply have two choices of which neither may be good. It's like when Steven Colbert tried to run as an independent, the government would not let him because in their opinion "he didn't take running for president seriously". In my opinion Steven Colbert would be a much better choice as president than Obama or McCain because he is more in touch with the common (smart people) he thinks like we do.
Jun 12, 2008
I agree that sometimes it is best that we citizens don't have all the information, but I would hate to think it should be a policy to lie whenever the government thinks its necessary.

There is a great line in the movie Men In Black. Tommy Lee Jones is explaining to Will Smith about the aliens on the planet earth, and Will Smith asks, "Why don't you just tell people, people are smart?"

Tommy Lee Jones answers, "No, a person is smart, people are dumb panicky animals and you know it."

Telling the masses something that a normal person could deal with will blow up in your face. For whatever reason, a society has a harder time accepting something than its indahvidual members.
0 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
So the majority of this countries top political officials are bumbling idiots...this is clear.
But what about all the people, slightly below them, who were disregarded when they said "Hey, that's a bad idea, don't do that!"
We don't need a more intelligent government, we need people that can listen to the majority of their peer when told their ideas are probably going to cause this country to tailspin.
-4 Rank Up Rank Down
Jun 12, 2008
I mostly agree. Yes, the US gets what it deserves.
Jun 12, 2008
No, it's NOT alright. Someone needs to be held accountable. When you're in that position you MUST be held accountable for the actions that occur (the Buck stops where?) and I think the government owes the citizens of the US a big apology for their actions. If I could request that the top management/leadership commit Hari-Kari I would. Put their pensions towards paying for some of their screwups. And give the next group of politicians a reason to do a hell of a lot better.
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