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If you live in the United States, you probably have an opinion on the best way to reduce the deficit. And you probably know almost nothing about the topic. I certainly fall into that category. 

If you listen to pundits and politicians, you're getting your information from professional liars. If you're reading books, you're getting your information from professional liars who also write well. If you read newspapers and magazines, you're getting only the information that someone has decided will be good for sales.  If you say you "do your own research," you're probably a liar, possibly an idiot, and maybe some sort of analytical genius. And frankly, I can't tell you guys apart.

Prior to the last presidential election, as a public service, I commissioned my own survey of economists to see what they thought of the big issues.  I learned that the experts are all over the map on most questions. Can you feel comfortable holding an opinion in which 40% of the experts disagree?

This made me wonder what is the least a citizen needs to know in order to have an informed opinion on the national budget debate. Here's my starter list. I invite you to add to it.

My Budget Questions...

By what percentage would you need to cut the entire national budget to achieve fiscal health in the long run, assuming tax rates stay where they are?

How much would we need to increase taxes, as a percentage of all Federal taxes, to achieve fiscal health in the long run, assuming government costs rise only with inflation?

By what percentage would we need to raise taxes on rich people (let's say the top 2% of earners) in order to guarantee fiscal health, assuming no other change in expenses or taxes?

For an economy such as ours, at what level does the national debt become a death spiral? And where are we now in relation to that point? How soon would we reach it at our current pace?

------ End of Questions -----

On the same topic, I'm a fan of the 30-year back-weighted budget plan. You start cutting budgets only slightly in the early years, when reductions are psychologically and politically difficult, and you defer the bigger cuts for the later years, when technology enables you.

For example, I think it would be much harder to cut the military budget by 10% next year than it would be to reach a 50% reduction by year thirty, so long as we make it a national priority to do so.  In thirty years we'll be able to crush smaller countries with nothing but, for example, one indestructible robot with laser eyes. Meanwhile, big countries won't be dumb enough to screw with each other, thanks to nuclear weapons. It should be much cheaper to protect ourselves in the future, thanks to technology, if we start now and plan it that way.

Likewise, with health and social services, any cuts today would be cruel. But big cuts in the future might be feasible if we aim our technological sights on improving how we deliver those services.

I imagine a future in which we become so adept at the prevention and early detection of problems that health care costs become a fraction of what they are today. On top of that, I predict that in thirty years, end-of-life care will include a doctor-assisted euthanasia option. That would cut costs a great deal.

There's a nearly universal opinion that it would be unethical to push our problems on future generations. That would be a reasonable point of view if no one worked on solutions for reducing costs between now and then. But I believe we could accomplish big budget cuts in the future if we made it a serious goal today. Technology gives us that option.

The best part of my 30-year, back-weighted plan is that it would create the illusion, if not the reality, of a better future. Optimism is what drives the economy. What we have now is something that looks more like a hopeless budget death spiral, and people are hoarding their investible cash. A feasible and predictable budget plan would goose the economic engine and improve government revenue in the short run.

If you are a pessimist who believes that government spending will increase every year no matter what, I can't disagree. You might be right. But it has never been a national goal to use technology to greatly reduce spending by year thirty. Goals can matter.

As part of my 30-year, back-weighted plan, we could include provisions to raise taxes at an ever-so-slight pace for each of the future years as a hedge against not making the cost reductions. The economy is pretty good at absorbing any sort of change that is both gradual and predictable. And if you knew your taxes would only increase, for example, 1% over the entire next five years, you might be willing to live with it, even if 40% of all economists tell you it's a bad idea.

Here's where I remind you not to make and life-and-death budget decisions based on what you read in a cartoonist's blog. I'm just thinking out loud.

 

 
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Nov 12, 2010
The first order answer is, you should be able to invest the new money you borrow in something that pays enough for you to pay off the loan and its interest. A lot of municipal bonds are justified this way. The US government can borrow money very cheaply right now. But will it be spent on anything that increases tax revenues? I think the answer to that is second order - you have to use models for how this or that expendature effects business expansion, hiring, consumer spending and all the other processes that lead to increased Federal income tax revenues.
 
 
Nov 10, 2010
This is a derail, but I was inspired by Fledder's comment and couldn't find any other way of contacting a user on this site.
Fledder if you check this post for updates and would be interesting in talking about some of your ideas for humankind's capacity to free the masses from a cycle of debt and work in order to embrace meaningful human progression: Then email me at georgew@temporarything.co.uk or take a look at my site www.temporarything.co.uk

apologies to everyone who isn't Fledder.
 
 
Nov 9, 2010
Lots of talk here about revenue generation but very little about reducing spending, with the exception of defense. Which is a poor idea; we're the world's police force, disaster responder etc and it's not a job to abandon. To attack the debt spend less. You do it at home and it works. The federal legislators have pounded the notion that national govt is just too complex for the masses to understand and therefore only 'us pros' can steer the course to success. Horse hockey. Spend less. Encourage thirft, self reliance, efficiency and stay out of the way of the private sector. Simple. Within federal induced complexity the private sector will flourish. And Laffer will continue to laugh.
 
 
+1 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 9, 2010
Hey Scott,

I was curious about some of the same things and I stumbled across IOUSA, the movie. It's available to stream over Netflix and is about as succinct as is possible for covering this issue:

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

Of course, no amount of gettin-things-done music can make what looks like a bunch of high school civics teachers driving around in a minivan exciting...
 
 
Nov 9, 2010
@goosemonster
We have that in the united states, and we call it sales tax. It's not a federal tax for us, though, it's for our local (city, county, and/or state) governments. We also have special bonus taxes on property, vehicles, communication, fuel, city services, imports/exports, and such.
 
 
Nov 9, 2010
A real simple tax for you guys in the US would be Value Added Tax (VAT)

We have this in Europe, basically it's a tax on every item you buy expect for esentials like food and clothing etc.

So the rich pay more because they buy more stuff. The poor don't pay much extra tax as they only have enough to buy food. Plus illegal imigrants pay tax too when they buy stuff.

 
 
Nov 9, 2010
The answers to these questions really require a clear vision into things that are fairly opaque. The US Government gets about 4.6 Trillion dollars in revenue via various taxes. The federal portion of the government gets to spend a little under 2 Trillion dollars, while state/county/city governments get to spend 2.6 Trillion.

While the federal budget is a book wide open with a hundred graphs circulating the internet, the "rest" of the government -- which spends most of the money -- operates with fairly little scrutiny.

Expensive federal programs (the obvious targets) are Social Security, Medicare, and the Military. The most expensive "local" programs are law enforcement (incarceration), welfare, and medical services.

Without drastically changing our social entitlements, it seems that military could be cut back considerably. Decriminalizing at least some recreational drug use would eliminate a majority of our law enforcement spending and it could help solve our problems eventually.

If we're willing to significantly reduce our social entitlements... deficit spending summarily ends and the deficit disappears in a decade or two.
 
 
Nov 9, 2010
By what percentage would you need to cut the entire national budget to achieve fiscal health in the long run, assuming tax rates stay where they are?

Cutting the budget will have exactly the opposite effect---it will increase the deficit because it will take it from the private sector. 99% of the public are idiots, including Obama. They don't understand how sovereign governments operate.

Look, here's how it works: The government spends money first by crediting someone in the private sector for the amount of whatever the government buys. For example, let's say the government needs a new billion-dollar bomber from Boeing. It contracts with Boeing for the bomber and deposits a billion dollars into Boeing's checking account. It does this by computer entry at the Fed. It doesn't have to beg the Chinese or the taxpayer for the money, it simply spends the money. This is not rocket science. The government then issues Treasury debt to sterilize the transaction by !$%*!$% a billion dollars out of public savings. The net is that Boeing now has a profit to spend in the private sector, plus the rest of the billion which they paid their workers and subcontractors and their workers. The deficit represents the amount of stimulus the government is providing the private sector. And, the outstanding debt represents the amount of money available to the private sector.

Imagine a world where the debt was paid off. The private sector would have its available money supply reduced by the amount paid off. Everyone would be poorer. Is that what you really want? If you do, you're an idiot.

Right now, we need the government to spend much more money and run a higher deficit in order to fill the gap in aggregate demand. But, it's austerian idiots who think that cutting the deficit is a good thing. It will be a total disaster if they get their way. Much of the deficit is caused by the gap in demand which results in fewer jobs. Unemployed people not only collect unemployment compensation, they don't pay taxes on income they might have received had they had jobs.

This country is not only run by idiots who don't understand this, most of the public are idiots who don't understand how the government operates. Create jobs by stimulus first, then tax the income of workers to pay down the debt if that's what you want to do. Until we exit this depression, cutting the deficit and the debt is CRAZY TALK.
 
 
+1 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 9, 2010
@islesfan: Total tax revenue changes in relation to two things 1) tax rates 2) tax base. You can't simply look at what happens to total tax revenues after a tax cut and assume that it is because of the tax cut. The tax base is increasing as the economy grows. You need to impute what revenues would have been had the tax rates stayed the same and then compare. The reason that this is really important is that a lot of government spending also increases as the size of the economy increases.

The other story is that lower tax rates will induce more people to report their income honestly (this is the CATO line of reasoning... they don't even rely on voodoo economics anymore!). But if this is the case it is much more efficient (and fair) to simply tighten the enforcement of the tax code so that everyone pays their share rather than lower rates to appease.
 
 
-1 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 9, 2010
The first 3 questions are all based on a riduculous economics assumption that fiscal health = no government deficit. Almost any respected economist would agree that it's OK for the government to assume some debt- the economics of a nation are very different from the economics of your personal family budget!

Also, bear in mind that the deficit depends as much on gdp as it does on the tax rate and government spending. That's why we had a government surplus duiring the clinton years- it wasn't because he cut spending or raised taxes, it was just because the economy was strong. Neo-Keynesian economics teaches us that right now, we need to increase government spending in order to boost the gdp and employment. This would temporarily increase the deficit, but in the long run decrease it as gdp and government revenue went up.

The only question here which is at all meaningful is the last one. But since the US government debt is currently about 60% of gdp, and the UK is over 100% but still going strong, I don't think the US needs to worry any time soon.
 
 
Nov 9, 2010
Similarly, no government servants should be elected solely by popular vote. It should be more like jury duty, except with stringent qualifications for holding office. Leaders should have to demonstrate a high degree of achievement in both academics such as economics and foreign policy and in leading people in a corporate setting or in smaller government bureaus. They should be compensated very well and a large portion of compensation should be contingent on meeting specific policy and economic goals (keep the peace, increase efficiency of government, increase the size and wealth of the middle class, reduce corruption, increase overall efficiency of national power & fuel usage as a function of economic output, etc.).

I would probably be good to make some form of government service mandatory for all citizens. Each position should have a commensurate level of qualification and people could rotate thru the positions as in jury duty. They would serve for terms of a few years and pass on the position to the next qualified, randomly selected candidate.
 
 
+5 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
I don't do budgets.

For myself and my wife, we set a limit in our checking account -- say $9000. Everything above that $9K, is fair game for purchases, bills, shipping the kids to Madagascar, that sort of thing. Once we hit that $9K limit, we stop all spending (except for eating). It works quite well, and actually, gives us a cushion in the event of any dire emergencies.

The problem with our National spending is that there is no limit. No one has set a "brake", or in investment terms, a "stop loss". Our representatives view the checkbook as bottomless. We know that it isn't. An attempt was made about 20 years ago to establish this "brake" in the form of a Balanced Budget Ammendment to the The Constitution. Unfortunately, it was buried and died a quiet death -- thanks in part to a few Congressmen who suddenly felt their favorite toy (pork) was going to be taken from them.

I think a 30-year plan is too long. We could get out of debt earlier by reducing spending a bit at a time -- as Scott said -- and by establishing a National Sales Tax of say 2% on all purchases. Yes, all purchases -- corporate, retail, individual, etc. The money generated from this tax could go into a National Trust for the sole purpose of paying down the debt. (A National Sales Tax is also a fair method of ensuring that everyone pays something for living within U.S. borders.)

Of course, a National Trust would rely upon leaders with integrity who could be trusted to use it for only the purpose it was created. (Won't happen anytime soon, I guess.)

Just my 2-cents worth...5-cents with inflation.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010
Basically, there is a difference between value and cost.
 
 
-3 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
"The rich DO use proportionally more of the services though. They have a lot more assets and require the safer environment that police and military produce in order to protect them. If a poor person loses everything, well, it's not very much. If a RICH person loses everything then suddenly having them pay more for increased protection would've been the logical thing to do. "

If I'm taking the bus to get to work, and you are taking the bus to see a movie, the cost of bus fare is the same for both of us. True, the value that the rich receive in government services such as police protection is probably higher than the value that the poor receive, but the cost is similar, assuming that they use a similar amount of police resources. Do you see more cop cars in the poor neighborhood or the rich neighborhood? That is the important question if you are talking a out cost. Rich people often hire their own security too.
 
 
+2 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
"The best estimates on how much economic activity is created by an income tax cut (fiscal multiplier) is between 0.2 and 1. No serious economist that I know of still believes that tax cuts increase total tax revenue."


I don't think that tax cuts will always increase revenue, but at times, they have. It isn't necessarily the increase in economic activity that leads to more revenue, but the fact that people don't try as hard to avoid taxes.

Regardless of the overall tax rates which have fluctuated a lot since the 1950's, tax revenue since the 1950's has hovered around 18%. There has to be an explanation for this, and although I agree that tax cuts are not a magical answer, they certainly don't seem to hurt revenues as much as you might be inclined to think.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010
Technology has indeed made things worse. We have billions of people, longer life expectancies, TVs for the poor, cheap cars. What about the good old days when people starved or died of smallpox? When leeches were used to bleed people healthy? Technology and corporations have destroyed those golden ages forever.

And we ran out of oil in 1980. I read it in a textbook in 1975.
 
 
+3 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
Man, I don't think there is an anwser to the questions you posted, simply because I don't think there is an agreement on the concept of "fiscal health".
 
 
+1 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
"They favor and create conditions in which the only way to make money is to have money. They rely on the poor to build or consume their products."

THese two sentences contradict each other. The rich have no choice but to give there money to the poor if they hope to enjoy their wealth. Real wages have been rising for the poor across the world since the Industrial Revolution.
 
 
Nov 8, 2010
"How much would we need to increase taxes, as a percentage of all Federal taxes, to achieve fiscal health in the long run, assuming government costs rise only with inflation?

By what percentage would we need to raise taxes on rich people (let's say the top 2% of earners) in order to guarantee fiscal health, assuming no other change in expenses or taxes?"

Except the economy is not static, and money cannot simply be transferred from one area to another without having other, usually negative, effects. WIth any tax increase, you would have to include any productivity losses in the economy due to the increase in taxes. Also, people can usually move their money around to avoid taxation. Even though the highest marginal tax rate has been as high as 90%, historically, federal revenues have hovered around 18% of GDP, regardless of whether the tax rates rise or fall.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/09/30/theyre-coming-to-get-you

This goofy link (it's Holloween themed) includes a graph showing just how tax revenues (federal) have hovered around 18% of GDP since the 50's.
 
 
+6 Rank Up Rank Down
Nov 8, 2010
" In thirty years we'll be able to crush smaller countries with nothing but, for example, one indestructible robot with laser eyes. Meanwhile, big countries won't be dumb enough to screw with each other, thanks to nuclear weapons. It should be much cheaper to protect ourselves in the future, thanks to technology"

Here is the problem with your statement:

Over time technology gives more military advantages to the poor than the wealthy. In William Wallace's time, a claymore (sword) was about as costly as a sports car is today. The same amount of money today would allow you to stockpile quite a few Kalashnikovs that would probably be able to take down several US soldiers (each US soldier deployed into action costs about a million dollars a year).

I'm really nitpicking more than anything, here. I agree that we could cut the military budget by 50%, but I would do it tomorrow, not 30 years from now. Large standing armies are becoming more and more expensive to maintain, and truthfully, no country is ever really prepared for war. The vast majority of wartime munitions production always occurs well after a major war has already begun. It would be far too costly to maintain a WW2 sized military for several decades throughout peace time and would require massive amounts of public debt. During a major war, these expenses can be justified, but not in peace time. Countries that enter a war at a disadvantage can usually turn the tables with the proper amount of emergency borrowing. In reality, the military strength of a nation is the strength of its economy and resources. As long as you can borrow money and convince your lenders that you will be able to pay them back, you can command a military of whatever size that you need. It would be better to reinvest those resources that are used up supporting a standing army back into the real economy, so that when a war brakes out, you'll be able to borrow all the money that you need. If you run your country into the ground to support a large, peacetime army, it'll all be for nothing.
 
 
 
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